[Boboff]

I have been swayed a bit from my view that it was bullying after seeing them, they seemed reasonable people, that and the fact that Idiot MP who went in the Jungle went on TV and said it was bullying.

I suppose Yuds sums it up, it's not about them, the management or what ever, it's about that family now, and appreciating what a dreadfully sad situation that poor nurse found herself in.

Sad.

[Yudster]

I have never said that I thought this case was bullying per se - merely that the perpetration of pranks on unsuspecting others could be interpreted as bullying.

Every time I think about the two presenters I think things like "well it will be hard for them to get work again now" and "they must feel terrible, they'll never be able to forget about this" - and then I think about that poor woman's daughter and I realise that it would be wrong for them to get over it, it would be wrong for them to be able to get away from the consequences of it because she never, ever will.

[The Deadly]

Ok I'll throw this out there. Is it not selfish of nurse Saldhana to commit suicide and not seeking professional help? She has two children so is she as guilty as the radio station for not thinking about the consequences of her actions?

That is not my opinion just a debating point.

[chrysostom]

On the issue of Patrick Moore, it makes me incredibly sad that he's died as he has an absolutely heartbreaking story.

I remember finding out about it when I was reading an interview with him about how he'll never forgive the Germans, it's on the Daily Mail website, so I'll quote it here.

‘The only good Kraut is a dead Kraut,’ the 89-year-old has declared in an interview to mark the 55th anniversary of his star-gazing TV show The Sky At Night.

The comment, apparently delivered with the utmost seriousness, may seem shocking to younger generations but the scars run deep for Sir Patrick. His fiancée Lorna, a nurse, and he were both 20 when she died in an air raid on London in 1943, three years after they met. Sir Patrick, who served with the RAF during the war, has previously told how he was so deeply in love that he entered into a life of bachelorhood after the tragedy as ‘there was no question of anyone else’.

In his interview for the latest edition of Radio Times magazine, on sale today, he suggests that Germany still thirsts for world domination, saying: ‘We must take care. There may be another war. The Germans will try again, given another chance. A Kraut is a Kraut is a Kraut. And the only good Kraut is a dead Kraut.

‘A German general said to me at the end of the war, “You won two wars. You won’t win the third. And that’s the economic war.” I hope he’s wrong.’

He admitted there ‘can be good, free, honourable, decent Germans’ only to add: ‘I haven’t met them myself, but I’m sure they exist.’ He continued: ‘I’m no European. Why? Go to Europe and look around. The Germans tried to conquer us. The French betrayed us. The Belgians did very little and the Italians made us our ice cream.

‘Just look at the world now and look at it when we had a bigger say in it. The English are best. Stand up for England!’
Monocle-wearing Sir Patrick, who began presenting The Sky At Night in 1957 – said he had had ‘a rather interesting war’.

‘Reliable rumours’ of his derring-do include how as a Flight Lieutenant he once climbed over the dead bodies of his pilot and co-pilot to land his Lancaster bomber safely. Then there is talk of a distinguished career in intelligence.

He confessed that he ‘fiddled’ his way into the RAF on the outbreak of war by lying about his age – he was 16 at the time, a year younger than the minimum for air crew volunteers with parental consent – and hiding a childhood heart problem.

Whilst I don't agree with his views, after reading the article I couldn't fault them from his perspective. He had 70+ years of anger and sorrow inside him, and that is a devastating thought, and I hope he's at peace now.

[dimtimjim]

To me, suicide always seems a very strage choice for anyone who is a parent. No matter how bad your lot may be, you still have children and the effect on them is immeasureable.

Poor family.

[Yudster]

Its a murky and convoluted place, despair. Easy to get lost there.

[chrysostom]

^ Char's got it spot on. I don't want to get too emotionally involved, but if someone commits suicide - it's likely that (to that individual) every other avenue is either untenable or has been exhausted.

[MK Chris]

I totally agree with the above two comments. I've said my thoughts on this before, whilst making it clear I have no direct experience of it - but to call someone who commits suicide selfish is, in my opinion, ignorant beyond belief.

[The Deadly]

Ok I'll throw this out there. Is it not selfish of nurse Saldhana to commit suicide and not seeking professional help? She has two children so is she as guilty as the radio station for not thinking about the consequences of her actions?

That is not my opinion just a debating point.

No offence Deadly but right now I want to punch you for that "is it selfish?" comment. If you're in such a state of mind that you are contemplating taking your life which goes against all human instinct then you're in a place where you genuinely feel that the only way to help people is to take your own life. You are in a state where you feel you are a complete burden to those who love you and the guilt of being a burden adds to everything else.

To try and get help is a very, very, very hard thing to do yourself or to let anyone else do on your behalf. It's not a case of breaking a leg and getting a cast. Suicidal feelings involve many complex thoughts and emotions all tied to many different and often strangely insignificant things which are all then magnified to a state that feels impossible to cope with.

If you can can read you'll see that at the end of the statement I made it clear that it was not my opinion. It was a subject of debate elsewhere about suicide and if its the selfish option. I put it into play to further this discussion not for you to say you wanted to cause me physical harm.

[Yudster]

.....I have no direct experience of it ........

I do.

...but to call someone who commits suicide selfish is, in my opinion, ignorant beyond belief.

Mine too.

[dimtimjim]

I kind of do too. His death was attributed to suicide, but the belief amongst those who knew him was is it was purely accidental - but I suppose no one will ever know for sure if it was the intended outcome or not.

I do.

Oh. Sorry, no offence intended.

[colinho]

Going back to the Aussie djs, I also feel strongly that it was not their fault at all, thy did something that lets be honest, most people laughed at and have heard a million times on various radio stations.

If anyone should be accused of bullying it's the press again, if she was tipped over the edge by this, if would have been the harassment and mass media storm around it, the irony being that they press are now doing the same, if not worse to the djs!

[Boboff]

This is the thing about forums, I have stopped posting my thoughts on here, becuase I have no direct personal experience of suicide, except a chap I worked with a few years ago, so out of respect for people with direct experience, it would be crass in the extreme to "devils advocate" the situation.

I do think though Deadly shows real promice!

[chrysostom]

out of respect for people with direct experience, it would be crass in the extreme to "devils advocate" the situation.

Bobboff is Bobbon.

I also feel strongly that it was not their fault at all

Through causality, the producers are directly responsible for the media pressure that came upon the hospital by choosing to play the pre recorded interview.

That media pressure was warranted (albeit briefly), because if that person trying to get through was a journalist trying to get personal information, or even worse (omg terrorist!!) then the Hospital's security would have been extremely poor, when taking care of a member of the Royal family.

This was the information that they got from the call:

She’s sleeping at the moment. And she had an uneventful night. And sleep is good for her. As we speak, she’s been getting some fluids to rehydrate her. She was quite dehydrated when she came in. But she’s stable at the moment.

Yes, she’s quite stable at the moment. She hasn’t had any retching with me, since I’ve been on duty. And she’s been sleeping on and off.

Whoever is responsible for putting Nurse #2 in a position where she would give out personal details incorrectly would certainly be spoken to in a disciplinary mannar. Again, we don't know the details of her position or whether she had been making mistakes on a regular basis - but from what we do know, we can presume that for some reason the pressure of making a mistake like this was amplified, and had terrible consequences.

They are not directly responsible for her suicide. Legally they will not and can not be charged with anything relating to her death.

However the radio station, producers and presenters will have made a judgement call that any potential consequences from broadcasting confidential information and highlighting a security breach were worth broadcasting the content.

They could not have foreseen what would happen, as they didn't realise the magnitude of what they had done - and because of that, they consciously took the decision to broadcast the call to get publicity and listeners.

The presenters are being used as scapegoats - taking the pressure off the producer and radio station (which has form for doing 'shock jock' style features), but they do have a role to play in the events leading to this Nurse's death. Because of this, I think they should feel guilty for the rest of their lives - but the level of media focus on them is disproportionate. The story is done now, and it feels like the media are trying to push it until there's another twist.

Just like with the Russell Brand/Jonathan Ross affair, the likely action is that the DJs will have to have their contracts terminated. Their careers will forever be stained with this sad event, and their consciences (as well as the consciences of the producer who aired it) should always be troubled by her death.

[dimtimjim]

Whats the difference between a practical joke and your temperature?

A nurse can take ya temperature.

^^ The above is a poor taste joke. Coloured to hide from those who don't want to read it.

[Yudster]

This is the thing about forums, I have stopped posting my thoughts on here, becuase I have no direct personal experience of suicide.......

Don't do that. Most people will never be directly affected by it but that's no reason not to have an opinion, or enough interest to want to discuss it.

I don't advertise my experiences, but neither are they a secret at all - and personally I think its a subject which ought to be talked about without the attendant embarrassment that you always seem to get. I don't need people walking on eggshells because of my history (not that that is what you were doing) so anyone who has suddenly thought they had better shut up in case they upset me, don't please.

[dimtimjim]

^^ The grown up mature attitude we (I?) expect from Yuds. Spot on, I for one applaud you for it.

[Nicola_Red]

Somewhat belated but it got lost in all the other news - Hawkwind guitarist Huw Lloyd Langton died last Friday of cancer, aged 61. Born To Be Wild, a heavy metal classic. RIP.

[Boboff]

I don't advertise my experiences, but neither are they a secret at all - and personally I think its a subject which ought to be talked about without the attendant embarrassment that you always seem to get. I don't need people walking on eggshells because of my history (not that that is what you were doing) so anyone who has suddenly thought they had better shut up in case they upset me, don't please.

Actually you are right, I was.

I felt awkward.

Still do in fact.

Lets talk about farts or hugging.

[chrysostom]

rimtimjim.

i've been waiting for 2 days to use that.

[The Deadly]

Somewhat belated but it got lost in all the other news - Hawkwind guitarist Huw Lloyd Langton died last Friday of cancer, aged 61. Born To Be Wild, a heavy metal classic. RIP.

I learnt something about Hawkwind today whilst discussing this news. Apparently Lemmy from Motorhead was thrown out of Hawkwind for constantly taking too much speed. You learn something new every day.

[Nicola_Red]

Yeah, I think I knew that. Lemmy is a metal God - he's why I have the ace of spades tattooed on my arm, after all.

[Yudster]

Actually you are right, I was.

I felt awkward.

Still do in fact.

Well * DON'T.

We could talk about gardening if you like.

[Boboff]

Yuds had to bring up the whole gardening thing, sake!

It's good to know you both have such a possitive attitude to things being discussed.

Although didn't we berate Deadly for connecting Suicide with mental health issues? Not sure now.

I think your attitude to things has got to make you stronger in the end.

[Yudster]

No, its clear that suicide can be a result of mental health issues, there is not point in pretending otherwise. Its probably perfectly possible to argue that the act of suicide is impossible unless the balance of the mind is disturbed - which defines a mental health condition. But Deadly assumed that long term, ongoing mental health problems MUST be present in order for someone to take their own life and that's an assumption too far. When your world crashes in on you it doesn't have to take months, it can take seconds.

In other news - Ravi Shankar, musical mentor to The Beatles and the "godfather" of World Music has died. Oh no.