[LordMonkcheese]

One of the girls last week put on a pound & yet she wasn't mocked for it at all because they known she had been good that week (I couldn't work it out myself either, the woman opposite her is about 5 stone heavier than her, didn't diet at all & lost a pound yet she was healthy all week & put it on), people were quite sympathetic because of it and told her not to worry as next week she'll probably lose weight anyway.

Weight can fluctuate up to +/- 3-4lbs per day irrespective of what you ate the previous day/week. This is because you're measuring WEIGHT, i.e. the entire weight of your body (fat, muscle, skeletal system, internal organs, etc) and includes clothing. Now I presume you don't all strip down to your undercrackers therefore unless you wear exactly the same clothing for the weekly weigh-in, there will be a slight difference each time. Add to that the impact hydration plays, i.e. more or less liquid consumed = more or less weight on the scales, you're going to see a difference in weight from that.

Finally, your....ahem....'movements' play a part in the weight too. If you've evacuated your bowels, you're going to weigh less.

So the measure of weight per se isn't an accurate measure of fat lost (or gained), which I'm guuessing is what you're really looking to measure??

[chrysostom]

however given the practicalities of doing something like this in a working environment, and presumably over a long period of time - measuring weight would be the most practical method of measuring loss of fat.

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[MK Chris]

One of the girls last week put on a pound & yet she wasn't mocked for it at all because they known she had been good that week (I couldn't work it out myself either, the woman opposite her is about 5 stone heavier than her, didn't diet at all & lost a pound yet she was healthy all week & put it on), people were quite sympathetic because of it and told her not to worry as next week she'll probably lose weight anyway.

Weight can fluctuate up to +/- 3-4lbs per day irrespective of what you ate the previous day/week. This is because you're measuring WEIGHT, i.e. the entire weight of your body (fat, muscle, skeletal system, internal organs, etc) and includes clothing. Now I presume you don't all strip down to your undercrackers therefore unless you wear exactly the same clothing for the weekly weigh-in, there will be a slight difference each time. Add to that the impact hydration plays, i.e. more or less liquid consumed = more or less weight on the scales, you're going to see a difference in weight from that.

Finally, your....ahem....'movements' play a part in the weight too. If you've evacuated your bowels, you're going to weigh less.

So the measure of weight per se isn't an accurate measure of fat lost (or gained), which I'm guuessing is what you're really looking to measure??

This is all true, but over time you get a reasonable reflection of whether or not you're going in the right direction.

(I actually weigh myself in the privacy of my own home in the morning before I get dressed, so I don't have the issue with the weight of clothing.)

[Turicum]

It doesn't irritate me, but the Twitter/Facebook pushes they do bore me to death. There was one last fall (I think about Facebook) when they talked a whole show about pushing it to the next higher number.

Also as much as I like Dom, his last birthday was quite boring to listen to.

[chrysostom]

There was one last autumn (I think about Facebook) when they talked a whole show about pushing it to the next higher number.

fyp.

[Johnny 1989]

Nothing negative about it at all to be honest it's all been rather positive

You say that, but:

One of the girls last week put on a pound & yet she wasn't mocked for it at all because they known she had been good that week (I couldn't work it out myself either, the woman opposite her is about 5 stone heavier than her, didn't diet at all & lost a pound yet she was healthy all week & put it on), people were quite sympathetic because of it and told her not to worry as next week she'll probably lose weight anyway.

For the record she's one of the few who doesn't need to really lose any weight at all (if she'd have to it'd be half a stone but not any more than that & IMO she doesn't need to lose anything) but because she knows she has put on a bit she wants to lose it even though everyone else in the office tells her she's fine as she is.

If you look at it from my point of view, people are being consoled when they haven't lost weight, praised when they have, and encouraged to lose when they don't need to. That is the product of a culture that measures worth in body size. I'm sorry Johnny, please understand I'm not picking on you personally or accusing you of wrongdoing, I'm just using it as an example to make my point. Don't be cross with me

Yeah I can see where you're coming from, and I agree there are people that don't need to lose weight that aren't or are being pressured into doing so, I should point out we're not doing that at work, if someone doesn't want to do it any more fair enough, oddly enough the girl I mentioned was one of the people who came up with the idea anyway. But I know what you mean, I take the hollywood actresses as an example, Cobie Smulders for example in Series 1 of HIMYM is not fat at all but is noticable a little bit heavier (and I don't mean she was heavy at all, she was a normal weight), unfortunately the "hollywood bug" bit and although I think she's still pretty I think she's too skinny now.

I think it's a shame & it * annoys me when magazines like Heat & Closer show a "celeb" go from a "grossly unhealthy" size 12 or 14, down to a "medically healthy" size 8, sadly a lot of young girls see this as an example of them being over weight & so end up with a poor body image when they don't need to. I hate the magazines & to be honest I prefer a woman of a Size 12 or 14 over a size 6 or 8 any day & I know that being a size 12 or 14 doesn't make you unhealthy at all.

Apologies if I seem to be going on about this a bit but I hate body fascism, for some reason it has now become acceptable to take the piss out of people's appearance & it really irritates me.

Anyway back on topic

[Nicola_Red]

Don't apologise! What you're saying is that you agree with me sometimes people just need to think a bit more about the messages that our culture is sending us about body size. Which is understandable cos the prevalent message is literally everywhere. It took me many years to realise this stuff, and that was after a lot of reading of Fat Acceptance blogs and books.

[chrysostom]

If it's a danger to an individual's health, should the idea of being fat be accepted?

(i've not read any of these blogs/books, so i'm coming into this without any prior knowledge)

[Nicola_Red]

If it's a danger to an individual's health, should the idea of being fat be accepted?

(i've not read any of these blogs/books, so i'm coming into this without any prior knowledge)

Well, if someone is endagering their health and they're not directly related to you (and even sometimes if you are), is it your business? (I appreciate the argument about NHS funding by the way - many of these are written by American people where that isn't a factor.)

[chrysostom]

From a society's point of view, isn't it best to promote healthy living?

Not just from a healthcare perspective, but from a social angle - I think that the core message behind healthy living is to show a certain degree of restraint in what you indulge in, living a balanced lifestyle and doing things because they are good for you (such as exercise). Ideas which promote better individual traits.

The government is trying to discourage individuals to smoke because it's bad for the individual (as well as the group), and the obesity problem is similar in my opinion. I agree that society as it is now is flawed, as the yard-stick for a media-acceptable body shape is set way too high - but surely there's some wisdom in encouraging a society to be healthy, and strive toward a healthy body size?

(I know that you can be fat and healthy, but in the main it's usually not the case)

[Nicola_Red]

from a social angle - I think that the core message behind healthy living is to show a certain degree of restraint in what you indulge in, living a balanced lifestyle and doing things because they are good for you (such as exercise). Ideas which promote better individual traits...surely there's some wisdom in encouraging a society to be healthy, and strive toward a healthy body size? (I know that you can be fat and healthy, but in the main it's usually not the case)

If I may quote someone more eloquent than me (apologies - long quote!):

FA activists aim to unpack society's standards of beauty, and the oppression of the dominant social paradigm when it comes to body conformity.

Fat Acceptance is not about prescriptive health. Whether or not you are healthy by some arbitrary standard has nothing to do with your worth as a person and your right to be treated like a human being. You CAN eat whatever you want, because you are an adult and you get to make your own decisions. Fat acceptance is NOT about health – it’s about accepting fat as just another body that is capable of doing many different things. It is about how bodies are not public property. It is about how doctors who see only a weight on a data sheet are actively harming their patients through lack of quality care. It’s about not being able to access clothes.

ALL FOOD provides some form of nutrition to your body. So, you know what? If the option is no food or that tub of lard in the morning? I am going to support your choice to eat a tub of lard. I’m also going to suggest not twisting yourself up into knots over the tub of lard because food guilt about what we ate is such a waste of emotion and energy. It’s food. You need it to live. We need not be ascetics – self-denial is not a universal virtue.

I think it’s preposterous to claim that anyone is pretending some foods are not more healthful – but it’s also a) dependent on your notion of health and b) none of anyone else’s goddamn business what a person chooses to eat. So my notion of health, as I practice HAES, involves a hell of a lot of mental health because that’s come closer to killing me than anything else ever. If my mental health is improved by intuitive eating, which is it, I’m going to go that route. No one, including the fattest of fat people in the world, is required to eat only healthful foods. What I put in my mouth is not your business to judge.

Fat Acceptance isn’t pretending all foods have the same nutitive values. It’s saying you are allowed to eat, you are allowed to eat whatever you want, and that eating is better than starving yourself.

The message of fat acceptance is that fat bodies deserve just as much respect as any other body. It’s a surprisingly radical notion. Our diet culture has sunk its teeth into us so thoroughly that “you can eat whatever you want” is taken to be a BAD THING. Oh no! A philosophy that tells us to make our own choices and be responsible for them! Oh terrible! How dangerous to be in charge of our own bodies it must be!

That all comes from Marianne Kirby, one of my favourite writers/bloggers, at therotund.com.

[Yudster]

I don't believe that acceptance of obesity is a good thing as individuals or as a society. However if people read that and assume that I am saying everyone should be striving to look a certain way, that's their problem.

[chrysostom]

Hmm, I don't really agree with anything that blogger has said - but it's just a core difference of opinion there.

I think that people subconsciously judge other people on everything - no matter how hard they try. It's a human impulse and just comes from putting together, and trying to understand your surroundings, so I dislike it when I'm told not to judge others as I feel it's a natural impulse, which can sometimes be useful.

But yes, I feel agree to disagree might be the best option.

[Nicola_Red]

Yeah, I do realise that not everyone agrees and that's fine - this is just the best path for me. Years of dieting, starting when I heard my mother talk about diets when I was 8 or 9, resulted in me having horribly disordered eating patterns, constant self-criticism and low self-esteem. FA is the best way for me to make sense of my body image, stop the cycle of failed diets and feel like I'm okay as I am. I also feel like the realisation that I shouldn't judge and criticise others' bodies (not exactly rocket science, you'd think) has made me a better person overall.

[Johnny 1989]

I think the point must be made that not everyone that is over their ideal weight is unhealthy, you can be 1 or 2 stone over your "ideal" weight & still be healthy, 10 or 15 stone then not so much really. For the record I'm losing my 4-6 Stone for health reasons more than anything else, as I mentioned up thread (lost 5lb in two weeks so far ), although it's also partially to do with confidence as well because of the whole overweight = bad.

If someone I knew was very big but showed no real signs of any health issues then I wouldn't say anything, to be honest just because they're big doesn't make them unhealthy, however if they were struggling I would ask them if they were alright. However I wouldn't look down on them at all, it's not a case of overweight = lazy & greedy, not at all on the contrary I knew someone who put on a huge amount of weight because she had two bad things happen to her in the space of a year, she has constantly tried to lose weight (diet, exercise, etc.) but hardly shifts any weight. It's easy to say "stop eating pies fatty & lose weight" but it's not always clear cut as that. For example one of my ex colleagues was a 8 stone twig & yet the amount of cack he eat at work was unbelievable, however because of how body image is perceived people who do know him would think he was healthy because he's skinny & yet he could have been more unhealthier (internally) than the larger people in our office because of his diet.