[bmstinton93]

Well done to Newcastle! They managed to get £35m out of Andy Carroll who is definitely not worth it but I guess Liverpool knew that Torres was going so they got desperate but well done for Newcastle for raising the price.

[Yudster]

Newcastle must think its Free Money Monday or something. What a ridiculous price, and with that hanging over his head Carroll is never going to be able to do more than disappoint, surely?

I shall be interested to see how Torres performs at Chelsea. Personally I've never thought he was anywhere near the player he has been made out to be, but we shall see perhaps.

Back in the world of REAL football, we're having a mixed time of it, in 9th position now but onkly three points off the playoff places - there's still something to aim for!

[bmstinton93]

I honestly don't see how Torres will fit in. Currently, they often just play Drogba up front and it works well and also it may mean that Anelka will have to lose his place in the squad and he isn't exactly terrible. I hope Torres flops at Chelsea

[DevilsDuck]

I hope Torres does really well, but not well enough for Chelsea to win the league. I think Drogba will go durring the summer.

Torres is a very good player....when he wants to be

[MK Chris]

It's an obscene amount of money to change hands, as Gaspode said somewhere else, at a time when people are losing jobs left, right and centre.

[Munki Bhoy]

I'm shutting the border. I don't want El Hadji Diouf anywhere near our league. He gives total * a bad name.

[Yudster]

Someone said on Sky Sports yesterday that they thought the reason Torres had been brought in was to "make the established players feel they have to fight for their places". Seems like an expensive carrot to me.

[McGuinness-89]

I still think Liverpool should have tried harder to get Anelka as part of the deal.35 Mil for a player who has had 5 good months in the Prem is one of the maddest things I've ever heard of in football, and that's saying something.

[Yudster]

And he is injured and won't be able to play for weeks anyway. Great buy. Really great.

[chrysostom]

It's an obscene amount of money to change hands, as Gaspode said somewhere else, at a time when people are losing jobs left, right and centre.

incomparable to the situation of people losing their jobs, as the premier league is thriving through it's own commercial success - and the money paid for Torres (in relation to overall turnover - competition prize money, sponsorship, match day income etc) COULD be justified as reasonable investment.

the last set of figures for chelsea show that in 08/09 they turned over £242m through footballing operations alone - the acquisition of an asset which could increase their turnover by 7-8% per year, over the next 5 years (not only by prize money, but through sponsorship and global brand strengthening - not to mention merchandise sales, AND a potential re-sale value of £10-15m) would probably be worth a £50m investment.

ZOMG £50 MILLION.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

Players wages have to be amortised over the length of their contract now (I assume its a 5 year contract) so thats £10m a year. He is paid 175k a week so that is 9.1m a year so £45.5m over the period of his contract. The rumours were there was an additional £2m a year for image rights so thats another £10m over the contract. So he needs to make them £100m over 5 years just on his own. Chelsea's turnover this year was £205m (not sure where your figure is from) and they have those relative unknowns for selling shirts of Drogba, Lampard, Anelka and Terry.

Even if Torres is exceptional for Chelsea for 5 years that kind of investment is unstainable in any business not backed by a billionaire.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

Also - how do you define "thriving through it's own commercial success"? Do you mean the Premier League as an organisation in itself or the clubs within it? In what other business would a league where most clubs make a loss be considered a commercial success?

[chrysostom]

my figures were pulled from the deloitte rich club list, and the latest figures for last season won't be out until february.

i'm not arguing that it's not a significant and risky investment : but just saying that it could be justified within the realms of money which they are talking about. if torres was to be responsible for raking in £18m on his own per season (if you put a presumption of £10m sell on fee, reserved price for Torres at 31), i'd say that chelsea would be able to get that out of him. if you put him at being responsible for 15% of their prize money (without TV) then that's around £3m, and 5% of television money then that would be £1.5m

in terms of merchandise sales, there will be a lot - and increasing chelsea's market appeal (not only globally) but in spain in particular will bring in a lot of money. i can't put a number on these, as i don't really have experience dealing with merchandising figures.

also, because of torres' arrival : one of either anelka or drogba will surely leave in the summer, anelka would command a free of £10m and drogba £20m (approx) - which in the 5 year plan would eliminate either £2m or £4m. [forgive me for plucking out figures from thin air, but seems to be all the rage]

there are many MANY ways which clubs can bleed their players dry in terms of commercial gain and on the pitch.

i meant that the amounts of money which the premier league (and subsequently clubs) were having injected into the club through sponsors, rights etc. were a result of their own success : for which they have had to overspend for, but presumably some clubs have long term plans. obviously not the case for all, but that's down to chairmen and boards who can't manage their money. but good leaping on the fact i used the ambiguous phrase such as 'commercial success'.

i don't defend the state of some clubs - but some are obviously seen as long term projects.

youtube hemorrhages money at a rate far higher than any football club, as does myspace : yet there are no sensationalist stories about them, and their parent company's outrageous spending, and to some companies or conglomerates these football clubs are seen as just that - a brand building venture, of which the benefits and kudos outweigh the financial losses.

anyhoo, arsenal are perfect financially so i've nowt to worry about for the near future.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

You can't start making other players contribute to that investment without seeing whether those paid off. Also if he is 15% responsible for their prize money they are paying a lot of people for doing * all. They get the TV money regardless of whether Torres is there or not.

Chelsea announced their figures on the same day they signed Torres... funny that. Bury bad news...

[chrysostom]

i don't doubt that there are clubs who are in financial trouble : but that's through their own fault.

i don't think this torres deal is likely to be a flop (even though i really hope he replicates his form for liverpool...by that i mean winning them a couple of matches now and again, then leaving them with no strikers of his quality to fill in - making the team look impotent, and vulnerable to losing to stoke at home), i think they will be able to justify the money spent on him - and with the new uefa rulings coming in, this was the last (i think) window which they would be able to make any transfers which wouldn't balance themselves out in the next 3 years. this will be the last of lavish spending for a while i think.

also, the appeal of star players and thus general interest in their play makes people more likely to watch - making the tv companies more likely to bid for their matches, which gives them an increased proportion of the tv money. noone wants to see drogba and lampard at 35 trundling about. and if i can't speculate as to what money that torres is likely to make for the club, then it makes sense to say you can't speculate for the money he isn't likely to make - it's a wait and see situation if you take foresight out of the equation.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

The vast majority of the TV money is evenly distributed which is one of the few fair things about the Premier League - I found this interesting: http://www.sportingintelligence.com/201 ... n-2009-10/

Torres must have been disillusioned in a side which relied so heavily on two players after such a huge fee there may ironically be less pressure on him at Chelsea.

The new UEFA rulings are a joke with so many holes.

As for clubs being in financial trouble being their fault I agree to an extent but the demands to stay in divisions both financially and from fans is huge. Everton have spent relatively little in the last few years but are potentially in massive financial trouble - thats largely due to spiralling wages driven up by clubs like Man City and Chelsea.

[Munki Bhoy]

The thing that amused me most about the money was this.

Andy Carroll - 17 goals in the Championship in 2009/10 playing for a team that got promoted (so likely had a lot of chances to score). £35 million quid.
Gary Hooper - 19 goals in the Championship in 2009/10 playing for a team that nearly got relegated (so likely fewer chances and their best player by a mile). £2.4 million quid.

Oh, and Charlie Adam was in between the two of them at 18 goals. He's not even a striker.

[Boboff]

PLymouth Argyle have sold all their players to pay the PAYE, so we now have a squad made up of retired Exeter City players and boys from Honnicknowle.

Joys!

[Munki Bhoy]

PLymouth Argyle have sold all their players to pay the PAYE, so we now have a squad made up of retired Exeter City players and boys from Honnicknowle.

Joys!

If you think that's bad, wait until the summer when Rangers tax-dodging case comes to the courts. Something like £24m they owe, another £12m on interest (and counting) and then penalties on top of that for being tax-dodgers. This from a club already being effectively run by Lloyds TSB.

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.com/ is a great site to keep up to speed with how things are going. He's expecting the case to come in May and whatever happens it will be appealed and no doubt endgame will be around October/November 2012.

[Johnny 1989]

PLymouth Argyle have sold all their players to pay the PAYE, so we now have a squad made up of retired Exeter City players and boys from Honnicknowle.

Joys!

That's a shame I hate to see the little teams go this way, plus I want the "Green Army" to survive in all honesty, that's why the stupidity of Carroll being sold for £35m & Torres for £50m annoys me so.

[DevilsDuck]

Problem with Plymouth Is they are small enough not to matter but big enough to make an example of. I'm going to go to the next few home games if I can

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

Exactly right DevilsDuck - Rangers will come out of it fine but Plymouth is much more of a problem. Under the current climate what Stockport MBC have done for Stockport County is almost miraculous

[McGuinness-89]

Newcastle U 0-4 Arsenal 68 mins Newcastle U 4-4 Arsenal 90 mins.

I've always loved the geordies.

[chrysostom]

when football is involved, things are said in the heat of the moment that may be regretted later.

* ALL OF YOU ARSENAL HATERS.

apologies.

i've put an anger bet of £22 on wolves to win at 6/1

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

People who go the game remember not to mock others at bad times. I'm looking at you DevilsDuck you pillock.