[Johnny 1989]

I do kinda agree with what you are saying, the two points are that firstly the banks need to make a profit from current accounts. Up till now, they have been doing it with charging customers who have broken the terms of their contract with the bank. If they are not allowed to do that then they need to make money elsewhere and that means I need to pay more than I am now, therefore I don't want that to happen.

The other point is that there needs to be an enforcable way of stopping people breaking the terms of their agreement. A massive charge is a pretty good way to enforce that. Making the charges significantly less is not going to be as effective so more people will spend money they don't have and worry less about it.

That's fair enough Foots, although considering it's an "arranged overdraft" it does seem a bit hypocritical that they sign you up with one (Halifax insisted on me having one when I joined them 6 years ago) & are now punishing you with something that is "arranged" with them. Fair enough if you go over that agreed level overdraft but if they agreed to let you use that overdraft then it's a bit shyte imo.

[Yudster]

I'm sure there are people out there who know way more about how to manage money properly than I do, but I've never understood which part of "Don't buy what you cannot afford" is so difficult to grasp.

That's an honest statement.

......... just treat money in the Bank like you would if it was cash in your wallet. If it empty you have to work to fill it up again.

Whilst a lot of what's been said here is correct, these are the only two things that are actually properly important.

[Munki Bhoy]

I'm sure there are people out there who know way more about how to manage money properly than I do, but I've never understood which part of "Don't buy what you cannot afford" is so difficult to grasp.

That's an honest statement.

......... just treat money in the Bank like you would if it was cash in your wallet. If it empty you have to work to fill it up again.

Whilst a lot of what's been said here is correct, these are the only two things that are actually properly important.

Ahh, if only life were THAT simple.

Sometimes you don't buy what you cannot afford. And then something breaks that costs money to repair. Like your heating or the car you use to get to work. But you're already on a tight budget. And that hasn't been helped by ever increasing utility bills while the company you work for has frozen pay rises (or got folk to take a pay cut as it was that or redundancies) so really you're effectively making less than you were when you set your budget in the first place. So now you're faced with paying an extra bill that pushes you over the edge.

So you pay it, and then the bank owns you. Because all their rules are geared to making them money - that's capitalism in action. Take credit cards - you pay off the stuff that earns the least interest first. Direct debits come off when you don't quite have the cash there and not only does the company the DD was for fine you for that bouncing, but the bank charges you for the privilege of not paying it! The interest rates are ridiculously low at the moment, but you'll only notice that if you have a savings account with a bank, not if you have a mortgage with them.

And why are interest rates low? Why are companies freezing pay or cutting pay or making redundancies? Because the banks screwed the system, screwed us, and then our government gave the exact same people taxpayers money to go fix it. Which they haven't, they've just shuffled things around to make sure THEY don't lose money while continuing to * us over.

Happens every day to loads of folk. It's called reality, welcome to it. If you manage to get your way through all of this shit and still come out smelling of roses... lend someone less fortunate a tenner. The banks won't.

[pjordan2000]

Has anyone got £5 i can borrow................?

[Lactating Man Nips]

Has anyone got £5 i can borrow................?

"Neither borrower nor lender be" doesn't actually refer to one's principles about debt per se but how friendships can be ruined by unpaid loans (Macbeth). So no !

[Yudster]

Actually its from the Bible. Shakespeare probably got it from there.......

[Lactating Man Nips]

Actually its from the Bible. Shakespeare probably got it from there.......

Edit: really? what is the actual verse?

[Yudster]

There are several references in both old and new testaments to the wisdom or otherwise of borrowing and the motives which often lay behind lending. Certainly the context of such a transaction potentially causing bad blood between "brothers" is one of the biblical contexts, but its not the only one. I think Shakespeare probably picked out the most striking bits and used them beautifully - he was a bit good like that.

[Lactating Man Nips]

But the concepts of human behaviour around borrowing/lending aren't particularly novel and are probably old as mankind. The actual quote should be fully credited to him alone despite his influences whatever they were.

[josepi]

*gets a can opener, and gets can of worms then proceeds to re-open*

Re the charges debate:

I agree with footloose... If someone stole from a shop, would the shop keeper prosecute the offender and try and re-coup any losses or would they just let them get away with it and put the prices up for everyone to compensate for the minority who were stealing?

For the record, I am NOT calling people who go into unauthorised overdrafts thieves!

[Johnny 1989]

*gets a can opener, and gets can of worms then proceeds to re-open*

Re the charges debate:

I agree with footloose... If someone stole from a shop, would the shop keeper prosecute the offender and try and re-coup any losses or would they just let them get away with it and put the prices up for everyone to compensate for the minority who were stealing?

For the record, I am NOT calling people who go into unauthorised overdrafts thieves!

I've always kept inside my authorised overdraft, except for one month. I payed for my travelcard for the week & thought TFL would delay the pay by a day or so, unfortunately they didn't & took out the money which meant I was £1.98 over my limit, for 24 hours only. Halifax decided to warn me of my little mishap which they also slapped me with a £68 fine, for going over by £1.98 for only one day of which the whole overdraft was then payed and I was acually back in the black. Thanks for that charge by the way Halifax

[Lactating Man Nips]

Halifax decided to warn me of my little mishap which they also slapped me with a £68 fine.

Johnny, did the Halifax agree with you beforehand that this is the penalty if you ever went over your limit ?

I agree with footloose... If someone stole from a shop, would the shop keeper prosecute the offender and try and re-coup any losses or would they just let them get away with it and put the prices up for everyone to compensate for the minority who were stealing?

A shoplifter has no intention of returning the goods and doesn't pay interest to the shopkeeper whilst they have it - how is this the same?

[Latina]

I'm sure there are people out there who know way more about how to manage money properly than I do, but I've never understood which part of "Don't buy what you cannot afford" is so difficult to grasp.

That's an honest statement.

......... just treat money in the Bank like you would if it was cash in your wallet. If it empty you have to work to fill it up again.

Whilst a lot of what's been said here is correct, these are the only two things that are actually properly important.

Ahh, if only life were THAT simple.

Sometimes you don't buy what you cannot afford. And then something breaks that costs money to repair. Like your heating or the car you use to get to work. But you're already on a tight budget. And that hasn't been helped by ever increasing utility bills while the company you work for has frozen pay rises (or got folk to take a pay cut as it was that or redundancies) so really you're effectively making less than you were when you set your budget in the first place. So now you're faced with paying an extra bill that pushes you over the edge.

I wasn't talking about emegencies though. That's a different matter, and what loans/overdrafts (and savings, if you can afford it) actually ought to be for.

I was talking about people who treat overdrafts and loans as if it's their own money. And I know those people exist.

[MK Chris]

I agree with footloose... If someone stole from a shop, would the shop keeper prosecute the offender and try and re-coup any losses or would they just let them get away with it and put the prices up for everyone to compensate for the minority who were stealing?

The 'shopkeeper' would hopefully not authorise the person to take from his store, which is what the card companies do (despite the misleading label 'unauthorised overdraft') in the hope that they will be able to charge lots of money.

For the record, I am NOT calling people who go into unauthorised overdrafts thieves!

Err... yes you are.

[Johnny 1989]

Halifax decided to warn me of my little mishap which they also slapped me with a £68 fine.

Johnny, did the Halifax agree with you beforehand that this is the penalty if you ever went over your limit ?

Not that I can recall, although when they did fine me they handily sent me a leaflet regarding these charges, nice of them to do that.

[josepi]

I agree with footloose... If someone stole from a shop, would the shop keeper prosecute the offender and try and re-coup any losses or would they just let them get away with it and put the prices up for everyone to compensate for the minority who were stealing?

The 'shopkeeper' would hopefully not authorise the person to take from his store, which is what the card companies do (despite the misleading label 'unauthorised overdraft') in the hope that they will be able to charge lots of money.

For the record, I am NOT calling people who go into unauthorised overdrafts thieves!

Err... yes you are.

Errrmmm... ok point taken, that was a bad example. My point is why should people who abide by the rules pay for those who don't?

I do agree with you that if someone requests not to be ABLE to go overdrawn at all, that this should be allowed though... this wouldn't stop returned Direct Debits etc but would save people from unauthorised overdraft fees.

[josepi]

Oh, and £68 for being overdrawn for 24hrs is just ridiculous.

[Johnny 1989]

Oh, and £68 for being overdrawn for 24hrs is just ridiculous.

I know, to be honest though I just couldn't be asked arguing with them. Someone at work argued with their bank due to their charges they had & when all was said & done, the phone calls back & forth to the bank canceled out the refund in the end.

[MK Chris]

My point is why should people who abide by the rules pay for those who don't?

I agree with you to an extent, but the fees are still extortionate. As I said before, the banks can well afford to charge a fiver and provide free current accounts.

[Johnny 1989]

Halifax is shyte, honestly. My friends transferred over the money they were lending me to my account, no problem, no charges, etc. Went to the Halifax to transfer the money to another account, at first all was going well until she asked me if it was a Halifax account or not. I told her it wasn't & she said unfortunately she could just move the money from one account to another, it would have to be an electronic transfer & that I'll be charged £25.

Needless to say I didn't bother, they got the money out for me & I ended up giving to my brother so that he can transfer it, for free. Time to change banks me thinks.

[foot-loose]

What?

It would cost £25 for HBOS to transfer money between their account and another banks? I transfer money like that all the time and i've never been charged!

[Yudster]

I have a Halifax account and I have transferred money to a non-Halifax account with no charge before. Something screwy somewhere.

[Johnny 1989]

What?

It would cost £25 for HBOS to transfer money between their account and another banks? I transfer money like that all the time and i've never been charged!

This is what i don't understand, my Brother's with Natwest & had no trouble transferring to HSBC, my mum's with Abbey & again no trouble with HSBC, so I was quite taken aback when they said £25.

I have a Halifax account and I have transferred money to a non-Halifax account with no charge before. Something screwy somewhere.

I'm wondering if this is a new policy then (much like to overdraft tax, as I like to call it), I only found out that it was a £25 charge when she said "this sort code doesnt work, is it a Halifax account?" When I said no she said that there was a transfer charge of £25. She was a nice lady & was helpful with alternative suggestions but it just seems very steep in my opinion.

[foot-loose]

What?

It would cost £25 for HBOS to transfer money between their account and another banks? I transfer money like that all the time and i've never been charged!

This is what i don't understand, my Brother's with Natwest & had no trouble transferring to HSBC, my mum's with Abbey & again no trouble with HSBC, so I was quite taken aback when they said £25.

I have a Halifax account and I have transferred money to a non-Halifax account with no charge before. Something screwy somewhere.

I'm wondering if this is a new policy then (much like to overdraft tax, as I like to call it), I only found out that it was a £25 charge when she said "this sort code doesnt work, is it a Halifax account?" When I said no she said that there was a transfer charge of £25. She was a nice lady & was helpful with alternative suggestions but it just seems very steep in my opinion.

Id speak to someone else. Unfortunatly, not everyone knows what they are talking about so I'd ask for a second opinion.

There's no way it costs £25.

[MK Chris]

That sounds about the amount they charge for those telegraphic transfers or whatever they're called that are supposed to be instant I think... I don't know why, but maybe you assumed they'd want to use that. I've transferred money to other banks accounts without problem lots of times.