[AdrianT]

Commotion - spot on, that was precisely my point I was making. Let anyone who says cheap laughs like this be acceptable then argue why they think that the dignity of a gay person is worth less than that of for example, a black person. To hell with Will Young, or whether there were eight complaints, the cringemaking transcript speaks for itself.

Still, the real homophobia comes from religion, and its stupid teachings on sexuality. Chris is by far not in that league. On the matter of Anjem Choudary not being arrested - I agree, and unfortunately we have a government that's desperate to appease Islamofascist nutcases, and trying to ram superstition down everyone's throats. Why should opinions about the origins of the Cosmos, or some mythical event in the middle east, be treated with any differently than opinions about politics, a football team, or for that matter, a particular DJ...? Darwin answered all these questions 150 years ago in any case. The only person who speaks sense is Pat Condell:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQSJae6R ... annel_page

[C-Kay]

his refusal to acknowledge and apologise for his homophobia could be seen as evidence that Moyles genuinely is a homophobe.

Making one comment which could be taken out of context does NOT make someone a homphobe. 'Homphobic' is one of the most powerful words of our generation and to call someone it without valid cause is wrong.

Exactly. I heard the original broadcast, i wasn't offended at the time, and i still cant see where people have got their 'Chris is homophobic' comments from. Playing up to a stereotype does NOT make someone a homophobic.

It's ok for someone to do a fake Geordie accent and shout 'MINT', it's ok to call all Essex Girls 'easy',thick and of course, they all have peroxide hair and drive Nova's and XR3i's, all West Country people talk like farmers and are inbred. If i go to a rave in a warehouse somewhere, i'm automatically judged as a drug taking waste of life. Do these people complain? No, it's called 'having a sense of humour. Yes, there are limits, but Chis didnt exactly say let's execute all homosexuals, like some of the Muslim leaders in our country. THAT is homophobia,not some DJ putting on a camp voice!!!!

[C-Kay]

Edit,cant be arsed with this topic anymore

[Commotion]

Exactly. I heard the original broadcast, i wasn't offended at the time, and i still cant see where people have got their 'Chris is homophobic' comments from. Playing up to a stereotype does NOT make someone a homophobic.

It's ok for someone to do a fake Geordie accent and shout 'MINT', it's ok to call all Essex Girls 'easy',thick and of course, they all have peroxide hair and drive Nova's and XR3i's, all West Country people talk like farmers and are inbred. If i go to a rave in a warehouse somewhere, i'm automatically judged as a drug taking waste of life. Do these people complain? No, it's called 'having a sense of humour. Yes, there are limits, but Chis didnt exactly say let's execute all homosexuals, like some of the Muslim leaders in our country. THAT is homophobia,not some DJ putting on a camp voice!!!!

Do you believe that it is acceptable to mock someone only on the basis of their skin colour? Because that's the equivalent of what Chris Moyles was doing regardless of the excuses you are making for him.

[Andy B]

You know what, in some cases it IS acceptable to make jokes based on someone's skin colour. There's a black guy I work with and the staff wear a black uniform. He jokes to me that if he wants to skive off for a bit that all he has to do is hide in the shadows and close his eyes. Is that racist?

Human's single out those who are different from the rest. I'm sure you could probably pin a genetic "survival instinct" thingy on it but I don't know about that. To recognise someone's differences is to recognise their individuality. If humour is involved then do be it. It's only when that humour takes on a derogatory tone that there is a problem. As I have already said I think Chris did overstep the mark a little. But we are getting to the point where we can't say anything.

[Andy B]

And another thing...in the bar I work in I'm the only English guy and I get reffered to as "Pom". The navy refers to the Army as "The Pongo" and I call the french girl who works in the bar a Frog on numerous nightly occasions. These are all derogatory nicknames based on steretyoes yet everyone knows it's all banter. Last week we had a "Tits out for the lads" night after work. No one complains or feels victimized yet according to some we would be classed as racist, sexist and biggoted. No one here thinks that though.

[C-Kay]

Exactly. I heard the original broadcast, i wasn't offended at the time, and i still cant see where people have got their 'Chris is homophobic' comments from. Playing up to a stereotype does NOT make someone a homophobic.

It's ok for someone to do a fake Geordie accent and shout 'MINT', it's ok to call all Essex Girls 'easy',thick and of course, they all have peroxide hair and drive Nova's and XR3i's, all West Country people talk like farmers and are inbred. If i go to a rave in a warehouse somewhere, i'm automatically judged as a drug taking waste of life. Do these people complain? No, it's called 'having a sense of humour. Yes, there are limits, but Chis didnt exactly say let's execute all homosexuals, like some of the Muslim leaders in our country. THAT is homophobia,not some DJ putting on a camp voice!!!!

Do you believe that it is acceptable to mock someone only on the basis of their skin colour? Because that's the equivalent of what Chris Moyles was doing regardless of the excuses you are making for him.

It's not really is it? Let's be honest. Is the film 'White Men Cant Jump' racist? No, it's a piss take. Where were all the complaints when every radio DJ and TV presenter were impersonating Marco from Big Brother? Do you find Dafid from Little Britain homophobic? Or is that ok because the person playing him is gay?

[Yudster]

In the past - the not very distant past - in this country though, people in minorities have been materially discriminated against based on their differences. Compared to a few years ago, this really doesn't happen any more, and the law is on anyone's side who does find themselves materially disadvantaged by such behaviour. I'm not saying it never happens, or that it can't happen, thats clearly not true - but mostly it doesn't. When I was born it was still (just, I think) illegal for a man to have sex with another man, and when I was growing up through the seventies it was really really unusual to see a mixed race couple, it was the kind of thing that would really be noticed. My grandma saw absolutely nothing wrong in referring to black people (who she had no problem with at all) as "niggers" and their children as "little picaninnies", and "them queers" were regarded as aberrant freaks.

Instead of getting all self-righteous and offended about what is essentially harmless banter, why not focus on how far we've come? Nothing that is said, even if it is said by people who really mean it, can materially disadvantage anyone in a minority group any more. It hasn't exactly harmed Will Young's career, has it? And whilst there are obviously still bigots out there who would, if they could, stamp such people down, the idea that Chris Moyles is one of them is laughable.

[Munki Bhoy]

Here's the biggest irony as far as I see it.

The problem isn't with the silly little things. The problem is with the extremists. If I use a term that isn't "politically correct" when referring to someone whose skin is darker than mine (leaving aside the fact I'm pasty and that covers almost everyone) then is that really a bad thing when compared with the stereotypical angry mob of KKK members with the torches and pitch forks and ghost costumes? Of course not.

So what's the difference between the KKK hate mob and the Daily Mail reading hate mob? It's a bunch of extremists who believe that they are right, will listen to no ones arguments otherwise, and go out of their way to protest and fight against those they believe are wrong.

Face it, you're two sides of the same coin. And you can all * off and die.

(Yes, I realise this is over simplifying things, but this stems from a mini hate mob of Chris Moyles haters who didn't actually listen to what he said properly. So in this instance over simplifying it is fine)

[Ben182]

You know what, in some cases it IS acceptable to make jokes based on someone's skin colour. There's a black guy I work with and the staff wear a black uniform. He jokes to me that if he wants to skive off for a bit that all he has to do is hide in the shadows and close his eyes. Is that racist?

Sure he can make jokes about himself. But if a white guy went up to him and made skin-colour related jokes, I'm sure it wouldn't be funny.

A black guy making fun of his skin colour is nothing like a straight man making fun of a gay man.

Not that I have a problem with what Chris said that is.

[Andy B]

And that's the point. If it's funny when he says it, why would it not be funny when someone else says it? Where does the difference lie between me making a joke (with humourous rather than derogatory content) about someone's skin colour and Chris revering to Dominic as Baldie, Slaphead, egg for a head etc..? Chris's words are clearly derogatory and it could encourage children who listen to make similar remarks to other bald people who may not feel as comfortable with their baldness as Dom. You don't choose your skin colour and you don't choose to go bald. Yet one is acceptable and the other is not acceptable for making jokes about?

[JonnyYesno]

Moyles was not being homophobic, and everyone stop conflating homophobia with racism to prove a point. Apart from both referring to minorities subjected to discrimination, their similarities are few. A black man can't conceal his colour before feeling safe to 'come out' and the gay community is perceived to be a toothless softer target - just some of the many differences.

Moyles was taking the piss out of Young because his public persona now can be percieved as exclusively defined by his sexuality which I'm sure he'd have to concede himself, he certainly doesn't play it down. As mentioned by other posters it seems he is capitalising on his increasing iconicism and that's what Moyles was ribbing him for. Had it been some other prominent characteristic like successful songwriting he'd equally say "ooh look at me I'm Will Young with my Novello Award" but that's hardly going to happen. Moyles has absolutely no motivation for being homophobic, but is always cynical of others that achieve fame from a 'thing' other than pure natural talent.

You have to read his remarks in context, not just the bare transcript in isolation. He's luvvie mates with Young. He made no derogeratory remarks to being gay itself but if anything to being camp (dress, shaved legs etc). We all understand that being gay is not a lifestyle choice but being camp is, and is enjoyed by both gays and straight men, it is not a natural behavioural by-product of homosexuality but an adopted one.

The Ofcom ruling charged him with 'potentially' reinforcing negative stereotypes. Yes that's true if you are the sort of person who doesn't know the difference between gay and camp and willing to ignore all context they are mentioned in. It's not Moyles' responsibility to ensure that listeners don't misinterpret him, they have to be creditted with some intelligence surely. Being afraid to mention, at all, 'gay' or 'black' for fear of its misinterpretation would certainly not be regarded by any human rights movement as 'progress'.

[foot-loose]

I canna remember if you have changed your point on what you were saying however:

We all understand that being gay is not a lifestyle choice but being camp is, and is enjoyed by both gays and straight men, it is not a natural behavioural by-product of homosexuality but an adopted one.

... here here.

Bloody camps.

[Andy B]

...their similarities are few. A black man can't conceal his colour before feeling safe to 'come out' and the gay community is perceived to be a toothless softer target...

Good point, well made. Think I'll back out of this for now.

[Yudster]

The Ofcom ruling charged him with 'potentially' reinforcing negative stereotypes.

The most negative stereotype I can think of is the one where the gay community surrounds itself with cotton wool and fluffy clouds because it thinks that they are too fragile and vulnerable to be treated the same as everyone else. And I don't believe the vast majority of gay people feel like that at all.

[jocky85]

Wasn't sure where to post this as a couple of threads seem to have gone off on the same tangent!

Is it not ironic that in all this 'uproar' surrounding Moyles etc, that the BBC should reply last night the episode of Top Gear with Clarkson's comments about lorry drivers killing prostitues?!

Wonder how many complaints it'll get this time round!

[richardtomlinson]

Not sure how many of you would have downloaded last week's Media Talk podcast from The Guardian, but amongst other topics Matt Wells and guests were discussing Chris and the latest Ofcom ruling. I've clipped the section and uploaded it to Sound Vault.

[Andy B]

A very interesting piece with both sides being well represented. It does seem as though many people find listening to Chris Moyles to be their "Dirty little secret". I know many people who publicly denigrate Chris to later revealing to me that they "occasionally listen when radio 4 gets boring".

My missus' brother is a prime example. We were out the other night with some friends and the OfCom thing came up. He said Moyles was puerile and talentless. I asked him how he knew as he only ever listens to radio 4. His public response was that he didn't need to listen to it as he didn't need to visit antartica to know it was cold. Later on however he said to me he didn't like the way Chris mocks Rachel's accent as he is from that neck of the woods. I pulled him up on the fact that only someone who listens to the show would know that to which he confessed he sometimes flicked over in the car on his way into work.

Bloody hypocrites. Say it loud, say it proud, I'm a grown man and I love listening to Chris Moyles.

If you're a grown woman you don't have to say that though.

[foot-loose]

I don't know what I am. *cries on the inside*

[Johnny 1989]

A very interesting piece with both sides being well represented. It does seem as though many people find listening to Chris Moyles to be their "Dirty little secret". I know many people who publicly denigrate Chris to later revealing to me that they "occasionally listen when radio 4 gets boring".

My missus' brother is a prime example. We were out the other night with some friends and the OfCom thing came up. He said Moyles was puerile and talentless. I asked him how he knew as he only ever listens to radio 4. His public response was that he didn't need to listen to it as he didn't need to visit antartica to know it was cold. Later on however he said to me he didn't like the way Chris mocks Rachel's accent as he is from that neck of the woods. I pulled him up on the fact that only someone who listens to the show would know that to which he confessed he sometimes flicked over in the car on his way into work.

Bloody hypocrites. Say it loud, say it proud, I'm a grown man and I love listening to Chris Moyles.

If you're a grown woman you don't have to say that though.

Dam Right! Hence my sig banner (which I have had in use since about 2006/7) but it's quite fitting

[Munki Bhoy]

Is it your sig on other forums though? We kinda know already.

[Johnny 1989]

Is it your sig on other forums though? We kinda know already.

No but that's because on half of them they have disabled pictures in signature bars

[foot-loose]

What about the other half?

Traitor.

[TIAL]

I'm a secret Chris Moyles listener.
[sung to the tune of 'secret lemonade drinker']

I'm sure there's a parody in there somewhere.

[Munch101]

Chris most likely won't read this but still.

I have a very high pitched voice in both my and other people's opinion. But guess what; I'm as straight as they come!

Tell you what. If Chris does read this, drop me an e-mail and I'll send you a voice clip of me talking. Play it and then make a comment about it that will REALLY tick Offcom off. If you get into trouble because I'm "gay" all you have to do is drop me an e-mail or give me a bell. Oh that would be a joy to see the look on the Offcom people's faces.

On another note, I think that this is stupid. It's as if people are getting told off for stating the obvius. It seems to me that a simple conversation such as the one below could get someone into a lot of both and it seems ridiculos!

Chris: That was a bit of Will Young with Changes. Now this morning as you might of noticed, I've been playing a lot of Will Young. Why? Well that's because we have a guest today. Will Young.
Will: Hello
Chris: So Will; tell us a bit about yourself.
Will: Well I'm gay.

OFFCOM: Oooh he said the "G" word. Naughty naughty. He stated the obvisus. Tut tut tut.