[BigApeLikeThing]

On the show they even mentioned that people in Sydney Australia could watch video highlights online.

I'm stuck in Melbourne Australia & the player tells me that the content can only be watched in the UK. What's all that about then?

I can't text the show as they don't get through from abroad but I have e-mailed a couple of times but I guess they get too many to answer.

Anyone outside the UK managed to view the video?

Ape

[TIAL]

Hi there Ape,

I'm in the UK, but from what I've heard on here the videos can't be watched by people overseas. I think it has something to do with licensing. I guess this means that Chris is wrong - but if anyone begs to differ feel free!

Welcome aboard by the way.

[C-Kay]

Probably to do with the TV license and the fact we pay for the BBC to operate, whereas people abroad dont.

Bloody right too i say!

[C-Kay]

Hi there Ape,

I'm in the UK, but from what I've heard on here the videos can't be watched by people overseas. I think it has something to do with licensing. I guess this means that Chris is wrong - but if anyone begs to differ feel free!

Welcome aboard by the way.

Beat me to it

[cjedj]

Probably to do with the TV license and the fact we pay for the BBC to operate, whereas people abroad dont.

Bloody right too i say!

In which case could you explain why people overseas can listen to the show, access all areas of the website excluding iPlayer formatted video, and watch - legally - all the BBC television output (including Radio 1's Big Weekend coverage)?

If your argument held water (an argument by the way which is simply a lazy regurgitation of the BBC's inaccurate propoganda on this issue), then none of the above would be possible.

Of course I may be doing you a disservice, and you possibly have more detailed info on this than the BBC have given (it certainly wouldn't be hard to give more info on this than the CMS, as they have ignored many questions on their blog about it) - in which case, care to share?

[Aled]

It's a policy that is being phased in starting with the brand new iPlayer which was obviously build with rights in mind. All our video content has recently been moved over to the new player (which uses the iPlayer technology).

This is a BBC decision and out of our control. Where possible we on the show also provide material to our Facebook and Bebo fan pages so port the videos to YouTube - international users will still be able to see that.

Expect other areas of BBC content to (rightly) go down this route. If it costs significantly to service people who don't pay the licence fee then we should certainly question why we're doing that and is that the right use of the licence fee?

[AC021193]

Fortunately, the Radio iPlayer is available to non-UK listeners, which is great, and hopefully it'll stay the same. It does make sense that people who don't pay the BBC shouldn't have the same access as people who do, such as with TV Watch Again, but radio is available to people outside the UK, who don't pay the license fee, and so I think it should not apply to things relating to radio.

[Aled]

The bandwidth difference so hence the cost is very different between the audio for a radio stream and video content which is why a line's been drawn!

[AC021193]

Ah, right. That makes sense. Hopefully it'll never come to the radio, I need it!

[cjedj]

It's a policy that is being phased in starting with the brand new iPlayer which was obviously build with rights in mind.

...

If it costs significantly to service people who don't pay the licence fee then we should certainly question why we're doing that and is that the right use of the licence fee?

Two different statements there Aled - which is it, a cost issue or a rights issue? If you're posting it to YouTube, I don't see how rights come into it.

And if it really is a cost issue, what proportion of the total cost is made up of bandwidth use from non-UK IP addresses? In other words, has this cost really been calculated to be signifcant as you state, and is that as a fixed cost or as a percentage of the total?

Finally, you say that when we know those numbers, then we should question why we're servicing people who don't pay the licence fee - but you're not questioning it, you've already taken the decision. There is no debate going on - the policy, such as it is, is already in place. So what were the results of the calculation?

[cjedj]

The bandwidth difference so hence the cost is very different between the audio for a radio stream and video content which is why a line's been drawn!

And what is the cost difference? I'm hearing a lot of theory but no numbers to back it up.

Please don't feel as though I'm aiming this at you personally Aled, but as you are chosing to represent the BBC on here, then I'm afraid it's you who's going to get the questions.

[C-Kay]

Probably to do with the TV license and the fact we pay for the BBC to operate, whereas people abroad dont.

Bloody right too i say!

In which case could you explain why people overseas can listen to the show, access all areas of the website excluding iPlayer formatted video, and watch - legally - all the BBC television output (including Radio 1's Big Weekend coverage)?

If your argument held water (an argument by the way which is simply a lazy regurgitation of the BBC's inaccurate propoganda on this issue), then none of the above would be possible.

Of course I may be doing you a disservice, and you possibly have more detailed info on this than the BBC have given (it certainly wouldn't be hard to give more info on this than the CMS, as they have ignored many questions on their blog about it) - in which case, care to share?

I wrote out a full on argument, then the bloody server crashed when i hit submit. I cant be arsed to type it again.

But it basically said what Aled said, about the bandwidth etc, but also a massive, in depth speech about rights and royalties, which i cant be arsed to type again.

[cjedj]

I wrote out a full on argument, then the bloody server crashed when i hit submit. I cant be arsed to type it again.

But it basically said what Aled said, about the bandwidth etc, but also a massive, in depth speech about rights and royalties, which i cant be arsed to type again.

That's a shame. The bandwidth discussion is pretty basic, it's just a numbers question, but I'd love to hear the rights and royalties side of the argument.

I'm also aware that in type all this might be coming over as a bit aggressive from me, so I must stress I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or anybody else - I simply want to get this properly discussed, because nothing I hear from the BBC (be that Aled, the various editors' blogs, or official announcements) actually stands up to scrutiny.

If the situation was as simple as:

- Pay the licence fee = access granted to content.
- Don't pay the licence fee = no access granted to content

then there would be no questions to answer. As things stand however, there is a massive amount of unclarity, and nothing coming out of the BBC is improving this.

[C-Kay]

na it's cool dude, i actually thought i came over a bit aggressive.

But anyway, am i right in saying the I-player is only available to UK residents only? and i spoke to someone on The Fratelli's forum, who couldnt access the BW highlights because they lived abroad, so i guess that is the - 'Pay the licence fee = access granted to content.' option you said.

and am i right in saying that they have no rights to say who can/cant listen to the music they play? Which would explain the live webstream being accessible for people abroad. Whereas videos/tv shows would be owned by the BBC, therefore are only available to UK residents/license fee payers?

[cjedj]

But anyway, am i right in saying the I-player is only available to UK residents only? and i spoke to someone on The Fratelli's forum, who couldnt access the BW highlights because they lived abroad, so i guess that is the - 'Pay the licence fee = access granted to content.' option you said.

Yes, but in that case, how can the CMS put content on YouTube like Aled says, which is then available internationally? If it's a rights issue, then you wouldn't be able make it available via one method, YouTube, and not the other, iPlayer. It would be both or neither. In other words how come non licence fee payers can watch it on one but not the other?

and am i right in saying that they have no rights to say who can/cant listen to the music they play? Which would explain the live webstream being accessible for people abroad. Whereas videos/tv shows would be owned by the BBC, therefore are only available to UK residents/license fee payers?

But the show itself is still BBC copyright, so if your theory were right, that would mean they could only broadcast the songs and not the links, which would obviously be daft and is not the case. And the content of the videos / tv shows is still available, legally, to overseas viewers and listeners - just not all of the content, which is why I am asking the question in the first place...

[TIAL]

how can the CMS put content on YouTube like Aled says, which is then available internationally? If it's a rights issue, then you wouldn't be able make it available via one method, YouTube, and not the other, iPlayer. It would be both or neither. In other words how come non licence fee payers can watch it on one but not the other?

I don't think it's a 'rights issue' for the CMS - they appear perfectly happy to show their content to the world because they put it on Youtube. I just think they chose to use the new Iplayer as a means of getting it across - which happens to have certain limitations as standard. I'd imagine it'd be easier to put it on Youtube for the international viewers rather than 'turn off' the rights on the Iplayer.

[Aled]

Hey I'm not defending the decision or taking on one side of the argument or other, I was just trying to be helpful and explain why international viewers couldn't see the videos.

It's a cost thing. For the video clips that have rights issues they won't be placed on YouTube by anyone at the BBC - otherwise we'd obviously be sued by whoever held those rights!

[C-Kay]

But anyway, am i right in saying the I-player is only available to UK residents only? and i spoke to someone on The Fratelli's forum, who couldnt access the BW highlights because they lived abroad, so i guess that is the - 'Pay the licence fee = access granted to content.' option you said.

Yes, but in that case, how can the CMS put content on YouTube like Aled says, which is then available internationally? If it's a rights issue, then you wouldn't be able make it available via one method, YouTube, and not the other, iPlayer. It would be both or neither. In other words how come non licence fee payers can watch it on one but not the other?

The films on youtube are filmed by the team themselves, not Radio 1 or the BBC themselves,it's totally different.

and am i right in saying that they have no rights to say who can/cant listen to the music they play? Which would explain the live webstream being accessible for people abroad. Whereas videos/tv shows would be owned by the BBC, therefore are only available to UK residents/license fee payers?

But the show itself is still BBC copyright, so if your theory were right, that would mean they could only broadcast the songs and not the links, which would obviously be daft and is not the case. And the content of the videos / tv shows is still available, legally, to overseas viewers and listeners - just not all of the content, which is why I am asking the question in the first place...

I think i'll leave to Aled, i cant explain what i mean too well.

[cjedj]

The films on youtube are filmed by the team themselves, not Radio 1 or the BBC themselves,it's totally different.

Not always - there was content from Radio 1's Big Weekend 2007 posted on YouTube on the R1 website. In fact some of Chris Moyles' content from that event was first posted using the iPlayer format, and then switched to YouTube.

[cjedj]

Hey I'm not defending the decision or taking on one side of the argument or other, I was just trying to be helpful and explain why international viewers couldn't see the videos.

It's a cost thing. For the video clips that have rights issues they won't be placed on YouTube by anyone at the BBC - otherwise we'd obviously be sued by whoever held those rights!

Aled, nobody's attacking you - personally I just want an unequivocal answer from the BBC on this issue, and as you have chosen to represent the BBC on here, then I'm asking you for that answer.

So the BBC policy is that iPlayer content will not be made available to international viewers, as the extra bandwidth required by those viewers is too expensive. In other words it a question of cost, not rights. Have I got that right?

[Console]

So the BBC policy is that iPlayer content will not be made available to international viewers, as the extra bandwidth required by those viewers is too expensive. In other words it a question of cost, not rights. Have I got that right?

Costs and rights aren't mutually exclusive, the rights are possibly obtainable, but for an increased cost - one the BBC obviously doesn't think is justified considering their funding source.

[cjedj]

Costs and rights aren't mutually exclusive, the rights are possibly obtainable, but for an increased cost - one the BBC obviously doesn't think is justified considering their funding source.

Clearly, but as just about anything can be obtained for the right price, then - if I understand it correctly, and I'm not claiming that I do - the fundamental question is one of cost.

[Console]

A combination of rights and costs - the rights aren't necessarily obtainable, but other than that, you're understanding correctly, it's pretty much the cost.

[MK Chris]

cjedj.. you are clearly taking this a bit too seriously. You are able to get round appearing to be from foreign lands by using proxies if you wish, why not just consider that instead.

[jeddeth]

I am just seeing this thread for the first time, but I am "gutted" that i can't see these vids... or the big weekend stuff... or the iplayer for that matter. If anyone has any detailed advice for me.. if you don't live in the UK but have had easy success watching these vids... you know where to find me. I would really appreciate it. Thanks.