[S4B]

Anyone else watched Jamie's Fowl Dinners tonight?

I am NEVER eating non organic chicken EVER again! I already did the organic, free range eggs and always try to get non intensively farmed meat (I buy from a local farm most of the time) but this programme has made me feel really ill. I hadn't even thought about battery/caged chicken eggs being used in products like mayonnaise. Stupid really, as I know that mayo is made from eggs.

[Sunny So Cal]

It's a horrible situation. The torment that factory farmed animals are forced to endure before slaughter is disgusting. If you could hear some of the nightmare stories of botched or cruel slaughters, too, you'd be even more appalled. Any changes that people make by switching to free range and organic whenever possible is to be commended. Good for you, S4.

[S4B]

I may actually be off Chicken for good

[foot-loose]

I may actually be off Chicken for good

Why?

I've not watched the programme yet, but as I said in the other post (why start a third one on this subject by the way?) if you watch these sorta programmes and change your mind completly on eating meat / chicken etc, it would interest me as to the reasons. I'm not for a minute saying that you are wrong in what you are saying, although I may well disagree with you.

I'll away and watch the programme.

[S4B]

Oh sorry Footy I forgot about your thread. Console you can close this one if you want. The reasons are many but the disgusting conditions in which these creatures are housed is wrong on so many levels. They gas any male chicks that hatch - organic or not - as those are no use in the whole egg business. The battery and caged hens were so close together that they looked like they had mange. The chickens reared for meat live for approximately 48 days in a dark barn up to their knees in mess and amonia with very little room to move and the farmer only gets 3p (that's THREE PENCE) per chicken from the supermarkets for those chickens which retail in TESCO at £5 for 2!

The whole thing made me feel physically sick. Oh and the reclaimed meat, which is basically the pulverised carcass of a chicken once it has been stripped of its breasts, wings, feet and legs, is then made into hotdogs!

I don't think it has changed my mind about eating meat but I certainly won't be eating a chicken for a while and when I do it will be an organically farmed chicken that has had a nice open air, run around the field kind of life.

[MK Chris]

It's sad that someone has to do a programme like this for people to open their eyes.

[foot-loose]

It's sad that someone has to do a programme like this for people to open their eyes.

I think it says a lot about the public in general. That's isn't a dig at you s4b, I feel that it is an area that a lot of people either are uneducated in or turn a blind eye to.

Yes, they gas the male chicks, but at least they are being used and at least they are not really being mistreated. I know it kinda sounds like I am being hypocritical, but they are obviously not old enough to have had a bad life and their carcasses are getting used to feed other animals so it's not like they are just being chucked in the bin which is where I thought they might end up.

With regards to the caged hens - the thing that worries me is the new 'improved' legistlation coming in 2012 - those new cages might be slightly bigger with a bit more room for the hens, but it didn't appear to really make it any better. Not to what I would deem to be acceptable anyway.

We have a tin of hotdogs in the house up north thats there for emergencies (i.e. we end up there with no food - dont know why, ask dad) and it contains "mechanically seperated chicken". I've always thought that didn't sound too great for the chicken. Now I know it isnt!

S4B - don't stop eating chicken based on what you saw - just buy free range. If everyone did that, the problems would be sorted and the price would come down.

[S4B]

I actually said I won't be eating chicken for a chile and when I do it will be organically farmed. I have never turned a blind eye to things like this nor do I consider myself uneducated however I never really thought about it before. Gassing the male chicks was genocide, nothing more nothing less and for you to consider that acceptable is nothing short of being complicit in that genocide.

I am more than aware that I will be mocked for taking that view but can one of those about to mock me explain what it is if not genocide?

[natfatbat]

Agreed footy.

[foot-loose]

I actually said I won't be eating chicken for a chile and when I do it will be organically farmed.

You also said...

I may actually be off Chicken for good

I have never turned a blind eye to things like this nor do I consider myself uneducated however I never really thought about it before.

Hence why I said it wasn't aimed at you - I knew you would read it like that. I will take the piss out you for many things, but being uneducated isn't one of them. Well, it is, but it's slightly less founded.

Gassing the male chicks was genocide, nothing more nothing less and for you to consider that acceptable is nothing short of being complicit in that genocide.

I am more than aware that I will be mocked for taking that view but can one of those about to mock me explain what it is if not genocide?

Well, I think genocide applies only to humans. Wikipedia defines it as "Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, religious or national group".

I think the word is 'slaughter'. Regardless of how the animal dies, if it is killed in those circumstances, it has been slaughtered. You may notice that the other method of killing them was to put them through a 'mincer'. That might have been a tad more traumatic to see.

[Nicola_Red]

It's sad that someone has to do a programme like this for people to open their eyes.

indeed. I was reading about factory farming when I was first veggie. But the more people who are aware the better so i have no probs with these programmes at all.

[S4B]

I actually said I won't be eating chicken for a chile and when I do it will be organically farmed.

You also said...

I may actually be off Chicken for good

I think the operative word here is may at the time I was feeling very sick!

I still think that wiping out a whole gender of chicks is genocide, the only thing they did wrong is to be born male. I have eaten * from a local farm and it's actually quite tasty, why not give these creatures a chance of life?

[Sunny So Cal]

S4, am I imagining things or wasn't there to be a veal programme as well? You definitely will be upset after that one. They're torn from their dairy cow mothers (who then mourn for their loss -- apparently quite loudly) and put in horrible conditions. I think this has been covered so I'll avoid the description. The mother cows are then impregnated again and again so she'll continue to produce milk for the offspring which are torn from her. It's a vicious cycle. As are gestation crates for sows. Footsy has summed it up perfectly (and Toph had a great quote up there as well) in at least 3 threads so no sense repeating it. And slaughter is slaughter but yes, I see your point. Life wasn't given much of a chance.

[catherine]

I wouldn't of thought the cow would have to be impregnated again and again for milk, i thought aslong as she is being milked she will continue to produce milk.

[Nicola_Red]

I wouldn't of thought the cow would have to be impregnated again and again for milk, i thought aslong as she is being milked she will continue to produce milk.

Alas, it's not that simple. If you are genuinely interested in where your dairy produce comes from, have a read.

http://www.factoryfarming.org.uk/dairy.html

[Yudster]

Milk production is another of my big hobby-horses - there's a dairy farm down the road from me and the state of the cows when they bring them in for milking is horrible to see. Some of them can hardly walk their udders are so distended, and one slipped over on the road once and the udder burst. She couldn't get back up again and had to be shot in the road.

On this and the chicken thing though - don't get too hung up on the word "organic". What you need to look for first is Free Range. Then, if you want, organic - but it makes very little difference to the health of the chicken (egg or meat production) if it is "organic" or not.

[Console]

This may just be me being stupid here, but what does 'organic' mean again?

[catherine]

Console is having a blonde moment. I thought i would never see the day.

[Console]

My hair is particularly light today, but I can't seem to recall the meaning of it; I'm not sure I've ever known come to think of it. Farming and the like isn't really in my areas of interest.

[foot-loose]

This may just be me being stupid here, but what does 'organic' mean again?

It's to do with what the animals are fed / given. They should only be fed on natural food and not given any growth chemicals etc. Organic normally means that they have a much healthier life than if they were battery hens, although I'm not sure if they are allowed to just feed them natural food but still keep them in cages.

[foot-loose]

Organic foods are produced according to certain production standards. For crops, it means they were grown without the use of conventional pesticides, artificial fertilizers, human waste, or sewage sludge, and that they were processed without ionizing radiation or food additives.[1] For animals, it means they were reared without the routine use of antibiotics and without the use of growth hormones. In most countries, organic produce must not be genetically modified.

[Console]

They should only be fed on natural food and not given any growth chemicals etc.

Ah, that does sound familiar now actually.

[MK Chris]

We were talking about this yesterday, my aunt is a veggie and she said the programme that turned her veggie was one that showed a load of lambs all queuing up in a line to be killed and from about eight lambs behind the one being slaughtered, they could see what was going on and tried to turn round and go back, but obviously there wasn't enough room. I can imagine that would be quite harrowing to watch.

She acknowledges there's nothing wrong with eating meat if that's your thing, though; it just put her off, she's very much of the Yudwuk opinion that people who do eat meat should only eat meat that's been humanely treated and killed.

[catherine]

I don't like this thread it makes me feel abit sick, i understand i eat meat and i know that these animals are being killed but i also know i buy my meat from the butchers and animals have the quickest possible death, unless they are being killed and given up for sacrifice for a certain religions God. Not all animals are being kept in bad conditions, if you eat meat buy organic and free range but there is no need for all the gross details about everything.

[MK Chris]

Some people only react to "gross details" though, young Catherine.