[DemonHorse]

positive discrimination? (if such a thing were possible.... but dont get me started on that.)

[Walter Sobchak]

positive discrimination? (if such a thing were possible.... but dont get me started on that.)

Could be? although the term positive discrimanation could be viewed as derogatory in itself!

For example, a teacher 'reprimanded' me today for saying Pakistani, about a friend of mine who is from Pakistan, (He thought I had said "something else" as he only overheard part of the conversation)

Great benefit of working at a school, when some obnoxious teacher 'has a go' at you, then you can bite back! lol

[Yudster]

I remember a friend who worked as a reporter for a local newspaper being told that she wasn't allowed to write that 80% of muggings in Colchester in the previous 12 months had been reported as being carried out by black men. It was considered to be a racially inflammatory remark. The fact that it was true didn't seem to be an issue. This was some years ago, I don't know if that would still happen.

[princesslia]

I agree that 'half caste' is a bit of an outmoded term and yes that did strike me while I was listening. but only the girl in question can really say whether it was offensive, after all. it's already been pointed out to me regarding another topic on here that it's pointless to be "outraged on behalf of other people"!

Well Said!

Theres a term, I think its something like inverted racism, this denotes someone being racist by over compensating what may or may not be racist remarks, usually Guardian readers!

and... I also beleive Leona will not be so outrageously horrified at this word, I am quite sure she is adult and intelligent enough to see the word as descriptive rather than abusive. She will have much more to think about in making a career for herself in the Big bad world called the Music Industry. Good luck.

[princesslia]

OK mate, it was the random bits for me today, like when he burst into geordie accent after hearing girls aloud. Oh and yeah I get offended by what he says about things too, usually petty stuff like when he slags off a telly programme I like etc.

It takes more guts to talk about things in the ear and eye of the public, than it does to sit behind closed doors. He will always have someone who will be offended by what remarks he makes, but, if you dont like it.... switch off. There are more people that like him, than dislike him.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

Things like that wind me up. I'm not racist but if that was the other way round, the story would have been allowed to be printed.

Things like that wind me up too. Its amazing how many people have "friends" with these stories. A lot aren't backed up with truth.

[Gaviano]

It's an interesting debate.

I'm not sure it matters that the only person who has a right to be offended by a remark is the person that remark was directed to. I seem to remember Shabaz from BB7 referring to himself as a "wacky Paki poof" in his audition tape. Just because he was referring to himself doesn't mean that no one else can be offended by it.

I also beleive Leona will not be so outrageously horrified at this word, I am quite sure she is adult and intelligent enough to see the word as descriptive rather than abusive.

Well, only Leona can confirm if that's true or not. But yes, half caste is an adjective and is descriptive before it is abusive. Some people will think it describes someone of mixed race and think no more of it. Some people will think it describes someone as being unpure or having less worth. Worryingly, there are people in the latter group who would applaud it as such. Either way, I guess it's our own mindsets that decide how we interpret it.

And if we spend our lives being offended on behalf of other people, we'll never have any time to write nuisance letters to Scott Mills and/or "Chappers" and I for one haven't been dedicating nearly enough time to this recently.

[Yudster]

Things like that wind me up. I'm not racist but if that was the other way round, the story would have been allowed to be printed.

Things like that wind me up too. Its amazing how many people have "friends" with these stories. A lot aren't backed up with truth.

If you are insinuating that I am lying, you are quite wrong. I am many things, but I am not a liar - and it's interesting that in a thread which is discussing potentially offensive and abusive language, you choose to be directly abusive to, and plainly attempt to offend, one of the participants. If nothing else, you have demonstrated that you can cut right to the centre of an individual without using any obviously "rude" words, if you so choose.

When you get to the stage in life that I am at, the thing you might find amazing is just how much more you know now, than you thought you did when you were at the stage you are at now.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

I never actually called you a liar. Get off your high horse then read it again.

[Yudster]

And I never said you did - the phrase I used was "If you are insinuating". I think your post was genuinely interesting and useful, as I said, in that it demonstrated that "being offensive" is not just about using inflammatory language. And now you are saying that perhaps it is not always about intent, either.

My friend, the reporter, whose name is Rowena, worked for the local paper I spoke about in the mid nineties. Her experience of their editorial policy was by no means unusual, so she tells me (I phoned her yesterday to check I had got this right, after all, it was a long time ago). She tells me that when she left in July of 1998 the policy had shifted slightly to something a little more realistic, and that all this was in line with local reporting standards at the time. She got married, had babies, and is now the proud owner of a bookshop in Southampton. She's also black, which, in the context of her earlier concerns, you may or may not find significant.

[princesslia]

And I never said you did - the phrase I used was "If you are insinuating". I think your post was genuinely interesting and useful, as I said, in that it demonstrated that "being offensive" is not just about using inflammatory language. And now you are saying that perhaps it is not always about intent, either.

My friend, the reporter, whose name is Rowena, worked for the local paper I spoke about in the mid nineties. Her experience of their editorial policy was by no means unusual, so she tells me (I phoned her yesterday to check I had got this right, after all, it was a long time ago). She tells me that when she left in July of 1998 the policy had shifted slightly to something a little more realistic, and that all this was in line with local reporting standards at the time. She got married, had babies, and is now the proud owner of a bookshop in Southampton. She's also black, which, in the context of her earlier concerns, you may or may not find significant.

You know we can, still use words, and then we can genuinely laugh at these words. ie. Shabaz BB7 describinging HIMSELF as a Whacky Packy Poof.
A self description, and he had a Scot's accent, and I am a scotswoman, I think he had the bravery to turn the whole gay/racist persona round in such a way, that he put it solely descriptive of himself. . But, we all know, if this description was said,or printed by another person, then it would be given a completely different angle,and would have caused an outrage.
How one person treats, and acts towards another's nationality, will always be brought to attention. Let us put this subject into prospective. This week a man has been charged with murdering his own children, this was outrageous, horrific and no words could possibly describe a man who could do such a terrible thing to his own. The word half-cast has caused emotion, yes, but words and actions are world's apart.
When I first took my husband to Scotland, him being English. We were chatting away with friends at a pub. A local drunk heard my husband's English accent, and immediately slated him and accused him of murdering and slaughtering the Scots at the Battle of Culloden. I immediately jumped to the defence of my shocked husband, and told the drunk, no, my husband wasn't there at the time.... then... I tore into him verbaly, and told him, he was a disgrace to his Scot's nationality, and I was embarassed to have a fellow Scot behave in such a manner to an Englishman, and he should be ashamed of himself, for making such an immature stupid remark like that. ........." words"...Now actions are different, I then gave him a hard right hook to the side of his face, and it knocked him unconscious to the floor........ "lies".

[Yudster]

Blimey, talking of wincing - I was watching CBeebies (me and Dom!) the other morning, Tweenies was on, and the theme of the programme was being greedy and not sharing. One of the characters (it was the dog actually, but bear with me.....) gathered up all his belongings - and a load of other stuff - and out it in a pile and sang a song called "Mine, Mine, It's All Mine!", and the lyric about hoarding and acquiring and accumulating was set to a very ethnically Jewish folk-song tune. Talk about your stereotypes!

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

Is it just me that now wants to hear some Jewish folk music?

[Peter]

Is it just me that now wants to hear some Jewish folk music?

yep

[Yudster]

More stuff to wince at - my old Granny used to call Jewish folk music "that Hotski-potski music".......! I like it, its fun to sing, even if you don't understand Hebrew (no, I don't understand Hebrew.....but I probably have a friend who does.) She used to call black children "them little pickaninnies". Her phrase for half-cast was "a touch of the tar brush". Sounds dreadful these days, but she didn't have a racist bone in her body. Times have changed.

[Mafro]

Is she still alive? Those phrases sound like they are form the 1800's

[Yudster]

No she's not - she was the same age as the Queen Mother, born in 1900, but she died in 1984. She was brilliant, and I loved being able to talk to someone who was 14 years old (which then was adult, out of school and with a full time job) in 1914 when the First World War started, and who held her family together in the East End of London through the blitz in WW2 - she was amazing. Almost all of the most important historical events of the 20th century, she lived through and remembered clearly, from her perspective. She was, by nature, a true working class Socialist, something which really doesn't exist any more, and her political ideals were shaped by her experience growing up and living her life in the East End in the early 20th century. I miss my old granny.

[princesslia]

More stuff to wince at - my old Granny used to call Jewish folk music "that Hotski-potski music".......! I like it, its fun to sing, even if you don't understand Hebrew (no, I don't understand Hebrew.....but I probably have a friend who does.) She used to call black children "them little pickaninnies". Her phrase for half-cast was "a touch of the tar brush". Sounds dreadful these days, but she didn't have a racist bone in her body. Times have changed.

yes, I agree, maybe there is too much attention on the words, and not enough knowledge on the people. I never see colour, only the person. I have been in situations, where I have been much more offended and embarassed by my own nationality, whaaaaaat is all this racist thing. Sadly it will never change, there will always be the minority, of small minded, inane, ignorant people who will spend their lives with an "Attitude" towards people who do not have their colour. These people are sad, and live in a tiny world, their world. Until, maybe they end up in hospital and have to get surgery to save their lives, performed by someone who is not on their like/skin colour list. We should actually pity these people. They do not live in the real world.

[princesslia]

No she's not - she was the same age as the Queen Mother, born in 1900, but she died in 1984. She was brilliant, and I loved being able to talk to someone who was 14 years old (which then was adult, out of school and with a full time job) in 1914 when the First World War started, and who held her family together in the East End of London through the blitz in WW2 - she was amazing. Almost all of the most important historical events of the 20th century, she lived through and remembered clearly, from her perspective. She was, by nature, a true working class Socialist, something which really doesn't exist any more, and her political ideals were shaped by her experience growing up and living her life in the East End in the early 20th century. I miss my old granny.

Aw I just loved this story, amazing women, a generation that will be hard to beat, reminds me of my grandmother. Objectives to colour was not something I ever remembered as a child, and I think if you have parents that make remarks that are racist you will have this in your head as you grow up. Fortunatley I did not.

[princesslia]

Is she still alive? Those phrases sound like they are form the 1800's

I see you are from Fife in Scotland, I spend amazing family holidays there as a child in a small village called Newburgh. Fond memories.

[princesslia]

Well it's time to climb the wooden hill.
goodnight.

[Mafro]

Is she still alive? Those phrases sound like they are form the 1800's

I see you are from Fife in Scotland, I spend amazing family holidays there as a child in a small village called Newburgh. Fond memories.

Newburg is just up the road from me, nice little village, too much old folk though.

[princesslia]

Is she still alive? Those phrases sound like they are form the 1800's

I see you are from Fife in Scotland, I spend amazing family holidays there as a child in a small village called Newburgh. Fond memories.

Newburg is just up the road from me, nice little village, too much old folk though.

Do you know of a little TV shop, and a couple called Bob and Margaret. They had a little shop in the village many years ago.
They must be old now.?
The other family I knew were the name Mclennan.?