[Morals]

<mini rant>

I know this is really anal but please learn to spell DEFINITELY - it's not hard!

</mini rant>

[Steve.]

Not everybody can spell, unfortunitely.

[Sidders]

I almost commented on Adam's "there" instead of "they're" earlier, cos that really gets to me. I decided it would be too anal, so might as put it in here.

[DemonHorse]

Not everybody can spell, unfortunitely.

A basic signpost of how bad the education system is in this country? Thats what it boils down to in the end. Had this discussion with someone at work about education and apparently in Ireland, any kids that are regarded 'special educational needs' (or whatever the PC Brigade call it now) took exams from English boards as they were considered far easier. This wasnt the case when I was taking my GCSEs, but now in English exams, they do NOT subtract marks for incorrect spelling or punctuation!!! How the hell can it be an english exam if its not test these too?

Its probably all so the government can get continue getting the 'highest grades in years' year after year, and take all the credit for it.

[Morals]

A good point well made. In my opinion some of the problem comes down to the fact that people are used to using texts and Email and so don't tend to use correct grammar / punctuation / spelling etc, and language skills are being forgotten as a result.

Discuss.

[DemonHorse]

How the hell can it be an english exam if its not test these too?.

Owch the irony, should have read Testing these too... I was sure I hit those keys too.. damn keyboard.

Also, I agree the whole text culture isn't helping matters... and neither is the government. Basically the kids of today are pretty screwed.

[Morals]

You missed an apostrophe too.

[DemonHorse]

and says it all I think.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

i cant spell on here but if i was writing a letter or typing an email at work i would be able to.

explain that.

[Morals]

That doesn't make any sense, except that on here you're probbaly not thinking about it so much

[DemonHorse]

You aren't part of the current/recent secondary education system?

As an example, I took GCSEs in 1998 and my A level and GNVQ in 2000, and I would have lost marks for getting punctuation and spelling wrong on all my exams (except the GNVQ in which the 'exams' were multi-choice tests that people not even doing the course could do with their eyes closed) and coursework.

This means you were actually taught spelling and punctuation, and the importance thereof, whereas if it's not considered important in more recent exams, apparently.

Also on a internet forum, you may not consider it AS important to get everything right anyway? Some people type real fast but aren't all that accurate, I have a medium typing speed and still make mistakes, but I care far less about things like that on internet forums.

All of these are just reasons I can think of right now, I've probably missed a few.

[Morals]

I graduated my BSc in 2000, so you can work out when I did my exams.....

[DemonHorse]

all of which means standards have gone down in the last 5 years, well within labour's time in power... hmmmm

[Lucie]

Spelling and grammar mistakes have been happening since 'writing' was first invented - it's part of the evolution of language.

[Mcqueen_]

but now in English exams, they do NOT subtract marks for incorrect spelling or punctuation!!! How the hell can it be an english exam if its not test these too?

Yes they do, look at the mark schemes.

[Mcqueen_]

God damn no edit.

You'd be right actually in saying they don't SUBTRACT marks, but thats only because thats not how marking works. If they have really bad spelling/punctuation/grammar/whatever they cannot gain higher than a certain level. They are then awarded marks in that levels range - so they are tested spelling/grammar.

[Gaspode_The_Wonder_Dog]

its usually a token 3 or 4 marks though.

[Mcqueen_]

It is in most other subjects at GCSE, not English - as I just said it's done on levels and can prevent you reaching a higher level.

At As/A Level spelling/grammar is even more important.

The whole - exams are easier now argument is just boring. Next you'll be saying Cadburys cream eggs have got smaller.

[DemonHorse]

God damn no edit.

You'd be right actually in saying they don't SUBTRACT marks, but thats only because thats not how marking works.

I think they should, it highlights the importance of it, i mean seriously, would you take bills and letters for other stuff like court appearances, written job applications etc seriously if it was misspelt all over the place and devoid of punctuation and grammar? NO, but if they dont highlight the importance of this during supposed education on the english language, we'll all end up getting them.

It'd be the equivalent of learning words in foreign language but nothing about tenses, syntax etc, you'd be using the right words but talking gobbledygook to any poor foreigners you encounter.

[Mcqueen_]

Maybe you still don't undertsand. You cannot get high marks still if you mispell words often - it's just this way means you arent awarded/subtracted marks willy nilly. English is ALOT more than spelling, else that would be a spelling test. That's why the mark schemes are split into sections with different levels to allow much fairer marking.

The fact you cannot get higher than a certain level - hence cannot get higher than X amount of marks - DOES highlight the importance. I don't know where you've got the idea that it isn't taken into consideration anymore, but it's wrong.

[Lucie]

Maybe you still don't undertsand. You cannot get high marks still if you mispell words often - it's just this way means you arent awarded/subtracted marks willy nilly. English is ALOT more than spelling, else that would be a spelling test. That's why the mark schemes are split into sections with different levels to allow much fairer marking.

The fact you cannot get higher than a certain level - hence cannot get higher than X amount of marks - DOES highlight the importance. I don't know where you've got the idea that it isn't taken into consideration anymore, but it's wrong.

Listen to Mcqueen - he talks sense . In the subjects I'm taking there are 4 levels - if you have poor spelling/ grammar, you cannot get a level 3. That means you cannot get above a D grade. If, however, you spell the word 'definitely' as 'definately' you are unlikely to be heavily penalised. What's the problem with that?

[MK Chris]

I think the basic English level of people in this country is pretty poor - even going back to quite a lot of adults - I consider my English to be fairly good - at least that's what I was told when I was at school, but if that's because they are comparing to a lot of people then to be honest it's not hard to be above average.

For example, I maintain a web site for our table tennis league, but I get the match reports from somebody else in an email. The general standard of these emails is of a level that I would consider to be quite bad (for example, I receive countless emails containing the text "{player name}, which won all of his matches...", as opposed to who.

It is also often quite noticable when you make an enquiry or complaint to a company by email and get the most diabolical of replies back as far as grammar is concerned (at least when you think that this is supposed to be a reply from a corporation rather than an individual person.)

[MK Chris]

Yes I realise I missed a closing parenthesis out of my second paragraph... It's the pressure of writing a post preaching about grammar, trying to use perfect grammar...

[Sidders]

I don't take major issue with spelling, as long as I understand what it's all about. The only thing that does bug me, as I said on the previous page, is the "there", "their" and "they're" mis-spellings, I'm not really sure why. I also don't like apostrophe misuse.

[Walter Sobchak]

"there", "their" and "they're

See not Sea
Which not Witch
can't think of any more right now.......
I can kind of understand baby talk when talking to a baby, but when it's written from one adult to another, THAT annoys me, for instance.....
Wuvz ooo , what?!?!?!?! (sent to a mate of mine by text, he dumped her quick!)
or, recently a relation was explaining in an e-mail about how she took her little kids to "see the piggy wiggy's and moo moo's and there was a lickle horsey there too"