[Johnny 1989]

Both of these adverts show the normalisation of outward sexism toward man in today's media - by shamelessly, and act to solely to perpetuate negative male stereotypes (given their context).

Adverts like these bring no public outcry, no 'head of masculism' condemning them and generally the male population just allow themselves to be slapped in the face by unimaginative put downs. It feels that a majority of feminists aren't able to celebrate their own achievements without contrasting them against that of a man's.

I agree, the KFC advert would have been OK, had the "rudness in today's society" had shown both males & females acting like twats, unfortunately it's that usual old bollocks of men been rude to women & how they are superior, it's condescending crap.

As for the Boots ads, I've hated them for years and I know people have complained about them and yet they have never been banned, yet less offensive ads have been banned.

Mm, possibly. I follow the F Word on twitter and they tweet links to great thought-provoking articles on all topics related to feminism, even though I don't agree with half of what's said. I was reading one this morning about a petition someone has started to abolish the title 'Miss' from all official documents...

What?! Why exactly, I mean every female I know around my age & younger always use 'Miss' rather than 'Ms', what is so offensive about the "is" bit in the middle, have we really got to this stage they we have to start a * petition to abolish a word, surely it's people's choice if they want to be known as Miss or Ms?

[Nicola_Red]

Before I start, I must state that this is not how I personally feel, and I use Miss. But...

The reason for it is that men have Mr and that's all. But a woman's title denotes her marital status. On every document they ever complete, women have traditionally been required to state whether they're married or not. Why should that be? In 90% of cases it's not relevant to the situation, so why is it necessary?

With regard to the Boots ad, I hate it too and I agree that it doesn't do women or men any favours. But whilst all sexism is bad and should be spoken out against, a couple of stupid tv adverts are a drop in the ocean compared to the effects of hundreds of years of patriarchal oppression.

[Yudster]

Men have to fill in the same forms as women, so if a form requires you to give your marital status it won't matter if the form filler is male or female. As for titles, the whole argument just makes me think that there must be loads of people out there with no problems, no worries and nothing unpleasant going on in their lives because they certainly seem to feel the need to invent all those things for themselves. The fundamental ethos of feminism is so obviously right that it hardly even needs to be argued, but Feminists (as opposed to feminists, of which I regard myself one) just seem to like arguing.

[Nicola_Red]

I think you're right, and I think there are far more important things to worry about within the sphere of feminism. But the fact that I have real life problems like money and health issues and relationships doesn't stop me from sitting around considering and discussing stuff like the portrayal of women in the media and body image. I can't help that I think and maybe even worry about that stuff, I just do.

[Yudster]

The portrayal of women in the media and body image have important implications. The use of the title Miss does not, given that any woman has the right to use the title Ms if she prefers.

[dimtimjim]

I always hear 'feminists' and think 'lesbians'. Not sure if thats what the aim was, but it keeps me happy.

Its not that I don't believe in equality. It's jus' that some of us are more equal than others...

Ho-hum.

[foot-loose]

So, to summarise...

Men > women.

[dimtimjim]

Men and Kit-Kats > women.

Tru dat.

[Boboff]

Patriarcal Oppression?

Wow, whats that all about then?

Why can't people just accept Men and Women are just different, and different men, and different women are different, we are all just different, not better, not always, we all have strengths and weaknessess.

What the * is wrong with women wanting to let people know they are married? or not?

Most men want to be married as well. Ed Shearan sums it up perfectly when he writes

"I would do without a tan on my left hand where my 4th finger meets my knuckle"

Patriarcal Oppression? total bollcoks if you ask me, now schh and get back to the washing up, yer lezzer...... (RIP Bernard Manning/Jim Davidson)

[Nicola_Red]

Patriarcal Oppression?

Wow, whats that all about then?

Why can't people just accept Men and Women are just different, and different men, and different women are different, we are all just different, not better, not always, we all have strengths and weaknessess.

What the * is wrong with women wanting to let people know they are married? or not?

Of course we're different. I am a feminine girl and I love all those aspects of my gender. But that's clearly a completely different thing from not being oppressed. I can't possibly explain all that patriarchal oppression encompasses in one post and, frankly, I don't really feel inclined to. You could always look it up - reproductive rights, the male gaze, employment inequality, rape and assault, masculine language, advertising, education, and that's just a start - lots of good stuff to read.

And if women want people to know whether they're single or married, great. They should have that right. But if they don't want to, they should have that right too.

[Nicola_Red]

I always hear 'feminists' and think 'lesbians'. Not sure if thats what the aim was, but it keeps me happy..

My friend, who herself is a lesbian, always describes my MA in women's studies to other people as "a degree in lesbianism".

[dimtimjim]

Interesting. You have a degree in lesbianism, and a degree of lesbianism.

Min. T.

[Nicola_Red]

Very true.

[dimtimjim]

Finding out Badger looks like me...

[chrysostom]

And if women want people to know whether they're single or married, great. They should have that right. But if they don't want to, they should have that right too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms.

I thought Ms put that to bed. Also theres Master/Mister isn't there?

[Nicola_Red]

Master is rarely used these days - I never really see it on official forms - and I always thought it referred to men under 18 anyway. I do know about Ms, but I'm not sure if it's ever really been accepted as a viable alternative - what do other people think?

[Nicola_Red]

We had a teacher who used it too and the exact same thing applied. I know that was in the late 80s which is a long time ago, but I think that illustrates that not very much may have changed with regard to the word.

[chrysostom]

Then the connotations need to be changed - not the word itself.

If you suffix a relationship-neutral term with indignation and anger, people won't warm to it.

[Nicola_Red]

I think you're right, but I'm not sure how we (as a society) would achieve that.

[Yudster]

I have never come across any form which insisted on knowing my marital status (some ask, but you don't have to give it and the same would apply to a man filling it in) or didn't give me the option of using Ms.

[Nicola_Red]

Meh. Like I say, it wasn't my petition and I use Miss quite happily. I just think it's interesting to raise and consider these issues.

[R94N]

Have had a killer headache all day...time for a lie down I think.

[dimtimjim]

Most common causes are dehydration or eye strain....

[Boboff]

I think it's sad really that some women feel oppressed.
Women can be just as nasty as men, generally in there role as mothers, which I think is a real issue, but there isn't a degree in stopping women being shit Mums, and I would say it's as much a desease as some Patriacal oppression or what ever.
Lifes not fair, but it can still be enjoyable.

[Bruvva]

Oppressed, you say?